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	<title>Comments on: To Dress Formally or Not, That is the Question</title>
	<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/</link>
	<description>Uplifting, edifying, and enriching reading by and for Latter-day Saint Women</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Tanya</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1467</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1467</guid>
					<description>The only psuedonym I use out there is Tigersue.  I'm getting used to using Tanya more, but I have a soft spot for my knickname that I can't get rid of it entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only psuedonym I use out there is Tigersue.  I&#8217;m getting used to using Tanya more, but I have a soft spot for my knickname that I can&#8217;t get rid of it entirely.
</p>
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		<title>by: RoAnn</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1466</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1466</guid>
					<description>Tanya, Thanks for verifying who that perceptive person who wrote #63 is. I followed the link back to We Seek after These Things (great name for a blog), and thought I had it pegged to one of your pseudonyms, but wasn't sure. No wonder I liked what you said so much--we are kindred spirits here on Roxcy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tanya, Thanks for verifying who that perceptive person who wrote #63 is. I followed the link back to We Seek after These Things (great name for a blog), and thought I had it pegged to one of your pseudonyms, but wasn&#8217;t sure. No wonder I liked what you said so much&#8211;we are kindred spirits here on Roxcy.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tanya</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1465</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1465</guid>
					<description>I have to say that was my post on We Seek after these things.  I did not realize it sent the ping here.  I had the link set up, but did not send the trackback.  Interesting feature with wordpress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that was my post on We Seek after these things.  I did not realize it sent the ping here.  I had the link set up, but did not send the trackback.  Interesting feature with wordpress.
</p>
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		<title>by: JKS</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1460</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1460</guid>
					<description>Wow!  Good for you, #63.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  Good for you, #63.
</p>
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		<title>by: RoAnn</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1459</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 02:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1459</guid>
					<description>#63, Thanks so much for these wise and thought-provoking comments, including the very relevant personal experience. Your statement,"Means should not be the determining factor of how we dress but what the state of our heart is at the time," really gets to the main point. 

For various reasons, we often slip into "casual discipleship" mode. What a great example you have shared in telling how you and your husband loveingly helped your son to understand "the importance of acting and dressing the part he was playing and changing what was inside him."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#63, Thanks so much for these wise and thought-provoking comments, including the very relevant personal experience. Your statement,&#8221;Means should not be the determining factor of how we dress but what the state of our heart is at the time,&#8221; really gets to the main point. </p>
<p>For various reasons, we often slip into &#8220;casual discipleship&#8221; mode. What a great example you have shared in telling how you and your husband loveingly helped your son to understand &#8220;the importance of acting and dressing the part he was playing and changing what was inside him.&#8221;
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		<title>by: &#8230;.We Seek After These Things! :: Casual Disciple to Valiant Disciple :: July :: 2006</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1457</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-1457</guid>
					<description>[...] I know for me I have not been as good with my personal prayers or my scripture reading. Can I improve on that? Some of the ways that we need to consider in evaluating our discipleship are in how we dress. A while ago on APoF,there was a thread on the trends in dress at church. It was a valuable discussion on our personal attitude in looking around at others, but dowe look at ourselves with the same critical eye? The issue is not what others are wearing but rather am I wearing the best I can because I can afford it and have access to the proper clothing. Means should not be the determining factor of how we dress but what the state of our heart is at the time. Are we dressing to appear greater than others around us? Ithink that would also qualify as not being in that right frame of discipleship. Does the clothing cover our garments sufficiently and is it not form fitting, or too tight. Do we push theline of modesty because we justify that garments are covered, when it may not be appropriate in how it fits? For men, do they fight the wearing of white shirts and ties, because they either think it is not cool, or that somehow they think the example and request to wear white is silly and dumb? I know that my son left for church today in a bad mood, hair uncombed, shirt dirty, white socks on, and grumbling that he didnthave time to fix it because he was to be at the church at 8am. My husband let him go because he was busy with two sick babies while I was getting ready. As soon as I heard this, I got in the van and went and picked my son up. I took him back home and I talked to him about who he is representing as a deacon, and he was not ready to minister in the ordinances with how he looked and the attitude he had as he left the house. I made him come home, comb his hair, change his socks, fix his shirt the best he could, and apologize to his dad about his attitude as he left the house. We both stressed the importance of acting and dressing the part he was playing and changing what was inside him. I think it was a great learning experience for all of us. No tempers were lost, it was done in love, and coincidently the Bishops message was on casual discipleship. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I know for me I have not been as good with my personal prayers or my scripture reading. Can I improve on that? Some of the ways that we need to consider in evaluating our discipleship are in how we dress. A while ago on APoF,there was a thread on the trends in dress at church. It was a valuable discussion on our personal attitude in looking around at others, but dowe look at ourselves with the same critical eye? The issue is not what others are wearing but rather am I wearing the best I can because I can afford it and have access to the proper clothing. Means should not be the determining factor of how we dress but what the state of our heart is at the time. Are we dressing to appear greater than others around us? Ithink that would also qualify as not being in that right frame of discipleship. Does the clothing cover our garments sufficiently and is it not form fitting, or too tight. Do we push theline of modesty because we justify that garments are covered, when it may not be appropriate in how it fits? For men, do they fight the wearing of white shirts and ties, because they either think it is not cool, or that somehow they think the example and request to wear white is silly and dumb? I know that my son left for church today in a bad mood, hair uncombed, shirt dirty, white socks on, and grumbling that he didnthave time to fix it because he was to be at the church at 8am. My husband let him go because he was busy with two sick babies while I was getting ready. As soon as I heard this, I got in the van and went and picked my son up. I took him back home and I talked to him about who he is representing as a deacon, and he was not ready to minister in the ordinances with how he looked and the attitude he had as he left the house. I made him come home, comb his hair, change his socks, fix his shirt the best he could, and apologize to his dad about his attitude as he left the house. We both stressed the importance of acting and dressing the part he was playing and changing what was inside him. I think it was a great learning experience for all of us. No tempers were lost, it was done in love, and coincidently the Bishops message was on casual discipleship. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: RoAnn</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-564</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 05:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-564</guid>
					<description>Editrix, 
You have pointed out, as Beata did, that many in the U.S. and other relatively wealthy countries have clothing that is generally considered more "formal," or "nicer" than what might be thought "appropriate" for Sunday meetings. And your observation of Princess Diana going bare-legged for a state visit is another instance of changing definitions of "formal." 
I find it most interesting that the reason you give for wearing cotton skirts and matching fip-flops to church on Sunday is that your teenage daughter thinks they're "cool."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Editrix,<br />
You have pointed out, as Beata did, that many in the U.S. and other relatively wealthy countries have clothing that is generally considered more &#8220;formal,&#8221; or &#8220;nicer&#8221; than what might be thought &#8220;appropriate&#8221; for Sunday meetings. And your observation of Princess Diana going bare-legged for a state visit is another instance of changing definitions of &#8220;formal.&#8221;<br />
I find it most interesting that the reason you give for wearing cotton skirts and matching fip-flops to church on Sunday is that your teenage daughter thinks they&#8217;re &#8220;cool.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: The Editrix</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-555</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 20:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-555</guid>
					<description>My "nicest" clothes are evening gowns and a wedding dress. 

My Sunday-go-to-meetin' clothes are cotton skirts and matching flipflops, because my teenage daughter thinks they're cool. 

--The Editrix, who religiously wore stockings and designer foot-mangling high heels (even in tropical Hong Kong!) until the day she ran into a bare-legged Princess Diana on a formal state visit. Gasp! For about three seconds. Then the common sense kicked in, and I saw her point. It was the LAST time I wore pantyhose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My &#8220;nicest&#8221; clothes are evening gowns and a wedding dress. </p>
<p>My Sunday-go-to-meetin&#8217; clothes are cotton skirts and matching flipflops, because my teenage daughter thinks they&#8217;re cool. </p>
<p>&#8211;The Editrix, who religiously wore stockings and designer foot-mangling high heels (even in tropical Hong Kong!) until the day she ran into a bare-legged Princess Diana on a formal state visit. Gasp! For about three seconds. Then the common sense kicked in, and I saw her point. It was the LAST time I wore pantyhose.
</p>
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		<title>by: RoAnn</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-529</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 May 2006 00:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-529</guid>
					<description>Over on the FMH thread which inspired my post, two commenters referred to a CES fireside talk by Elder D. Todd Christoffersen to YSA's &lt;a href="http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,538-1-2874-1,00.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;"A Sense of the Sacred"&lt;/a&gt;,and I think the following quote is pertinent here:
&lt;blockquote&gt;It is an affront to God to come into His house, especially on His holy day, not groomed and dressed in the most careful and modest manner that our circumstances permit. Where a poor member from the hills of Peru must ford a river to get to church, the Lord surely will not be offended by the stain of muddy water on his white shirt.

But how can God not be pained at the sight of one who, with all the clothes he needs and more and with easy access to the chapel, nevertheless appears in church in rumpled cargo pants and a T-shirt? Ironically, it has been my experience as I travel around the world that members of the Church with the least means somehow find a way to arrive at Sabbath meetings neatly dressed in clean, nice clothes, the best they have, while those who have more than enough are the ones who may appear in casual, even slovenly clothing.

Some say dress and hair don’t matter—it’s what’s inside that counts. I believe that truly it is what’s inside a person that counts, but that’s what worries me. Casual dress at holy places and events is a message about what is inside a person. It may be pride or rebellion or something else, but at a minimum it says, “I don’t get it. I don’t understand the difference between the sacred and the profane.” In that condition they are easily drawn away from the Lord. They do not appreciate the value of what they have. I worry about them. Unless they can gain some understanding and capture some feeling for sacred things, they are at risk of eventually losing all that matters most. You are Saints of the great latter-day dispensation—look the part.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over on the FMH thread which inspired my post, two commenters referred to a CES fireside talk by Elder D. Todd Christoffersen to YSA&#8217;s <a href="http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,538-1-2874-1,00.html" rel="nofollow">&#8220;A Sense of the Sacred&#8221;</a>,and I think the following quote is pertinent here:</p>
<blockquote><p>It is an affront to God to come into His house, especially on His holy day, not groomed and dressed in the most careful and modest manner that our circumstances permit. Where a poor member from the hills of Peru must ford a river to get to church, the Lord surely will not be offended by the stain of muddy water on his white shirt.</p>
<p>But how can God not be pained at the sight of one who, with all the clothes he needs and more and with easy access to the chapel, nevertheless appears in church in rumpled cargo pants and a T-shirt? Ironically, it has been my experience as I travel around the world that members of the Church with the least means somehow find a way to arrive at Sabbath meetings neatly dressed in clean, nice clothes, the best they have, while those who have more than enough are the ones who may appear in casual, even slovenly clothing.</p>
<p>Some say dress and hair don’t matter—it’s what’s inside that counts. I believe that truly it is what’s inside a person that counts, but that’s what worries me. Casual dress at holy places and events is a message about what is inside a person. It may be pride or rebellion or something else, but at a minimum it says, “I don’t get it. I don’t understand the difference between the sacred and the profane.” In that condition they are easily drawn away from the Lord. They do not appreciate the value of what they have. I worry about them. Unless they can gain some understanding and capture some feeling for sacred things, they are at risk of eventually losing all that matters most. You are Saints of the great latter-day dispensation—look the part.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: RoAnn</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-528</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 May 2006 20:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/04/26/to-dress-formally-or-not-that-is-the-question/#comment-528</guid>
					<description>Beata, Thanks for your comments! 

You have brought up an excellent point regarding the definition of the word "formal" in the context of church dress. I agree that American term "semi-formal", as you define it, is probably better than the word "formal" to describe appropriate church dress, at least in the U.S. Although in some wards young women do come to church in their prom dresses the Sunday after the prom, tuxedos (and corresponding attire for women) are not usually considered appropriate for Sacrament Meeting.

But even "semi-formal" doesn't always translate into what I think the Brethren are tring to express when they give the general guidlines such as Elder Holland spoke of (#54). 

Since the point of my post was to try to bring out the reasons why many people in the U.S. tend to dress more casually now, we have been trying to stay away from too many specifics; so my answer to your question, "Where does the line start, and where does the line stop?" is to merely refer back to the general guidelines that current apostles and prophets talk about.  :)

CS Eric, that was interesting to hear about Korea!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beata, Thanks for your comments! </p>
<p>You have brought up an excellent point regarding the definition of the word &#8220;formal&#8221; in the context of church dress. I agree that American term &#8220;semi-formal&#8221;, as you define it, is probably better than the word &#8220;formal&#8221; to describe appropriate church dress, at least in the U.S. Although in some wards young women do come to church in their prom dresses the Sunday after the prom, tuxedos (and corresponding attire for women) are not usually considered appropriate for Sacrament Meeting.</p>
<p>But even &#8220;semi-formal&#8221; doesn&#8217;t always translate into what I think the Brethren are tring to express when they give the general guidlines such as Elder Holland spoke of (#54). </p>
<p>Since the point of my post was to try to bring out the reasons why many people in the U.S. tend to dress more casually now, we have been trying to stay away from too many specifics; so my answer to your question, &#8220;Where does the line start, and where does the line stop?&#8221; is to merely refer back to the general guidelines that current apostles and prophets talk about.  <img src='http://roxcy.synthian.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>CS Eric, that was interesting to hear about Korea!
</p>
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