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	<title>Comments on: Eve and the Choice Made in Eden,by Beverly Campbell</title>
	<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/</link>
	<description>Uplifting, edifying, and enriching reading by and for Latter-day Saint Women</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4</generator>

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		<title>by: Starfoxy</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-942</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 May 2006 16:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-942</guid>
					<description>Indi,
Thanks for reviewing this book! I've been meaning to read it ever since I read Beverly Campbell's essay on the same subject (the book, as I understand, is an extended, and filled out version of the essay). Our understanding of Eve is so important for many reasons, and I enjoy hearing new ways of thinking of her actions and what her role says about my importance as a woman. :)
Do you think it is worth buying to keep as a reference, or is it a one-time-read sort of book?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indi,<br />
Thanks for reviewing this book! I&#8217;ve been meaning to read it ever since I read Beverly Campbell&#8217;s essay on the same subject (the book, as I understand, is an extended, and filled out version of the essay). Our understanding of Eve is so important for many reasons, and I enjoy hearing new ways of thinking of her actions and what her role says about my importance as a woman. <img src='http://roxcy.synthian.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Do you think it is worth buying to keep as a reference, or is it a one-time-read sort of book?
</p>
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		<title>by: Tim J.</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-931</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 May 2006 02:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-931</guid>
					<description>Elder Talmage in "Articles of Faith" as also quoted in the institute and Gospel Doctrine manuals:

"Eve was fulfilling the foreseen purposes of God by the part she took in the great drama of the fall; yet she DID NOT PARTAKE OF THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT WITH THAT OBJECT IN VIEW, but with intent to ACT CONTRARY to the divine command, being DECEIVED by the sophristies of Satan,"

Point is, we can play this game all night.  You quote one apostle, I quote another.  We won't go anywhere.  Try using the scriptures.  It's all right there.

BTW, I don't think Adam and Eve were ever told to multiply and replenish the earth.  At least not when they were in the Garden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elder Talmage in &#8220;Articles of Faith&#8221; as also quoted in the institute and Gospel Doctrine manuals:</p>
<p>&#8220;Eve was fulfilling the foreseen purposes of God by the part she took in the great drama of the fall; yet she DID NOT PARTAKE OF THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT WITH THAT OBJECT IN VIEW, but with intent to ACT CONTRARY to the divine command, being DECEIVED by the sophristies of Satan,&#8221;</p>
<p>Point is, we can play this game all night.  You quote one apostle, I quote another.  We won&#8217;t go anywhere.  Try using the scriptures.  It&#8217;s all right there.</p>
<p>BTW, I don&#8217;t think Adam and Eve were ever told to multiply and replenish the earth.  At least not when they were in the Garden.
</p>
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		<title>by: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-925</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 20:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-925</guid>
					<description>Some points that might be relevant.

Moses 3:17 says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

I think that phrase "thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee" is pretty significant. We also need to remember that the first commandment given to them was to multiply and replenish. We may not know the specifics of what they learned by walking and talking with God, but I would suppose they knew enough to know that they couldn't have children in the Garden.

&lt;i&gt;Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall (see Bruce R. McConkie, “Eve and the Fall,” Woman, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1979, pp. 67–68). &lt;/i&gt;
Dallin H. Oaks, “The Great Plan of Happiness,” Ensign, Nov. 1993, 72 

&lt;i&gt;The eternal power of choice was respected by the Lord himself. That throws a flood of light on the "Fall." It really converts the command into a warning, as much as if to say, if you do this thing, you will bring upon yourself a certain punishment [I have heard a similar explanation by Joseph F (or Fielding) Smith (can't find the quote)...I think he used the word 'consequence' which I think is more applicable]; but do it if you choose.
Such was the problem before our first parents: to remain forever at selfish ease in the Garden of Eden, or to face unselfishly tribulation and death, in bringing to pass the purposes of the Lord for a host of waiting spirit children. They chose the latter.
This they did with open eyes and minds as to consequences. The memory of their former estates may have been dimmed, but the gospel had been taught them during their sojourn in the Garden of Eden. They could not have been left in complete ignorance of the purpose of their creation. Brigham Young frankly said: "Adam was as conversant with his Father who placed him upon this earth as we are conversant with our earthly parents." (Discourses, p. 104)&lt;/i&gt;
John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, p.193 - p.194

&lt;i&gt;Had they not partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they “would have remained in the garden of Eden. … 

“And they would have had no children; … they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.” We, too, would have remained in our premortal condition without the possibility of mortal bodies or earthly experiences. We would have had no possibility of godhood.

We are blessed as a result of our first parents’ partaking of the fruit of this tree. Our eternity depended on their act of agency. We now have the power of procreation, providing bodies for the spirit children of Heavenly Father. Indeed, “Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.” 33 Adam and Eve made a conscious decision based upon the two choices that were placed before them. They chose mortality, which gave them the opportunity for eternal life....&lt;/i&gt;
L. Lionel Kendrick, “Our Moral Agency,” Ensign, Mar. 1996, 28 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some points that might be relevant.</p>
<p>Moses 3:17 says &#8220;But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that phrase &#8220;thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee&#8221; is pretty significant. We also need to remember that the first commandment given to them was to multiply and replenish. We may not know the specifics of what they learned by walking and talking with God, but I would suppose they knew enough to know that they couldn&#8217;t have children in the Garden.</p>
<p><i>Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall (see Bruce R. McConkie, “Eve and the Fall,” Woman, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1979, pp. 67–68). </i><br />
Dallin H. Oaks, “The Great Plan of Happiness,” Ensign, Nov. 1993, 72 </p>
<p><i>The eternal power of choice was respected by the Lord himself. That throws a flood of light on the &#8220;Fall.&#8221; It really converts the command into a warning, as much as if to say, if you do this thing, you will bring upon yourself a certain punishment [I have heard a similar explanation by Joseph F (or Fielding) Smith (can&#8217;t find the quote)&#8230;I think he used the word &#8216;consequence&#8217; which I think is more applicable]; but do it if you choose.<br />
Such was the problem before our first parents: to remain forever at selfish ease in the Garden of Eden, or to face unselfishly tribulation and death, in bringing to pass the purposes of the Lord for a host of waiting spirit children. They chose the latter.<br />
This they did with open eyes and minds as to consequences. The memory of their former estates may have been dimmed, but the gospel had been taught them during their sojourn in the Garden of Eden. They could not have been left in complete ignorance of the purpose of their creation. Brigham Young frankly said: &#8220;Adam was as conversant with his Father who placed him upon this earth as we are conversant with our earthly parents.&#8221; (Discourses, p. 104)</i><br />
John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, p.193 - p.194</p>
<p><i>Had they not partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they “would have remained in the garden of Eden. … </p>
<p>“And they would have had no children; … they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.” We, too, would have remained in our premortal condition without the possibility of mortal bodies or earthly experiences. We would have had no possibility of godhood.</p>
<p>We are blessed as a result of our first parents’ partaking of the fruit of this tree. Our eternity depended on their act of agency. We now have the power of procreation, providing bodies for the spirit children of Heavenly Father. Indeed, “Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.” 33 Adam and Eve made a conscious decision based upon the two choices that were placed before them. They chose mortality, which gave them the opportunity for eternal life&#8230;.</i><br />
L. Lionel Kendrick, “Our Moral Agency,” Ensign, Mar. 1996, 28
</p>
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		<title>by: Tim J.</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-923</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 19:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-923</guid>
					<description>The question here is:  Why did Eve partake of the fruit?  Well, why don't we let the SCRIPTURES tell us why Eve partook of the fruit.  Genesis 3:6 says that she partook of the fruit because she saw that:

-It was good for food.
-It was pleasant to the eyes.
-It was a tree to be desired to make her wise.

She wasn't wise, then she took the fruit.  She took the fruit, to BECOME wise.  

It's in the scriptures.  All the questions you have about the Fall are found in the scriptures.

Yes, they walked and talked with God.  How long did they talk with Him.  What did He tell them?  WE DON'T KNOW.  But I do know that the following conversation probably did not take place...

God:  You guys need to multiply and replenish the earth.
Adam/Eve:  Okay.  How!
God:  Uhhhh....you'll see!

It makes no sense.  God would have been interfering with his own plan!  Why even have Satan if God were going to let them figure it out on their own?  Not to mention the atonement would be unnecessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question here is:  Why did Eve partake of the fruit?  Well, why don&#8217;t we let the SCRIPTURES tell us why Eve partook of the fruit.  Genesis 3:6 says that she partook of the fruit because she saw that:</p>
<p>-It was good for food.<br />
-It was pleasant to the eyes.<br />
-It was a tree to be desired to make her wise.</p>
<p>She wasn&#8217;t wise, then she took the fruit.  She took the fruit, to BECOME wise.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s in the scriptures.  All the questions you have about the Fall are found in the scriptures.</p>
<p>Yes, they walked and talked with God.  How long did they talk with Him.  What did He tell them?  WE DON&#8217;T KNOW.  But I do know that the following conversation probably did not take place&#8230;</p>
<p>God:  You guys need to multiply and replenish the earth.<br />
Adam/Eve:  Okay.  How!<br />
God:  Uhhhh&#8230;.you&#8217;ll see!</p>
<p>It makes no sense.  God would have been interfering with his own plan!  Why even have Satan if God were going to let them figure it out on their own?  Not to mention the atonement would be unnecessary.
</p>
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		<title>by: Last Lemming</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-920</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 18:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-920</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;that eating the fruit was not a sin, but a transgression; and that Adam and Eve freely chose to eat the fruit, and were fully informed and educated about their choice. &lt;/i&gt;

Was it not the tree of knowledge of good and evil from which the forbidden fruit hung?  If, having not eaten said fruit, one does not yet understand the concepts of good and evil how can one possibly be "fully informed and educated about their choice"?  And if they were fully informed and educated, then why was eating the fruit just a transgression instead of a sin?  Isn't willful disobedience the definition of a sin?

Please understand, I am not picking on Eve.  I fully agree that she (and her daughters) have been unjustly abused throughout history.  But I am also uncomfortable turning her into a heroine for making such a fortuitous decision.  It was equivalent to the act of a seven-year old--neither sinful nor heroic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>that eating the fruit was not a sin, but a transgression; and that Adam and Eve freely chose to eat the fruit, and were fully informed and educated about their choice. </i></p>
<p>Was it not the tree of knowledge of good and evil from which the forbidden fruit hung?  If, having not eaten said fruit, one does not yet understand the concepts of good and evil how can one possibly be &#8220;fully informed and educated about their choice&#8221;?  And if they were fully informed and educated, then why was eating the fruit just a transgression instead of a sin?  Isn&#8217;t willful disobedience the definition of a sin?</p>
<p>Please understand, I am not picking on Eve.  I fully agree that she (and her daughters) have been unjustly abused throughout history.  But I am also uncomfortable turning her into a heroine for making such a fortuitous decision.  It was equivalent to the act of a seven-year old&#8211;neither sinful nor heroic.
</p>
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		<title>by: jen</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-918</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 17:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-918</guid>
					<description>Tim,

Where is the reference to Eve being completly ignorant?  Adam and Eve may have been ignorant of evil, but they walked and talked with God and inevitably learned from him.

I've read the book and took away a positive message NOT an "ascriptural" one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,</p>
<p>Where is the reference to Eve being completly ignorant?  Adam and Eve may have been ignorant of evil, but they walked and talked with God and inevitably learned from him.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read the book and took away a positive message NOT an &#8220;ascriptural&#8221; one.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tanya</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-917</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 17:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-917</guid>
					<description>I have the say I read this book along time ago and I was somewhat disappointed in it.  I wish I could remember why I felt that way, but I felt something lacking.  Maybe I have slightly different views on the subject.  Like I said it was long ago when I read it, so I don't completely remember the why's, I only remember how I felt.  
I am always glad to see someone else find a book that they enjoy even when I have not liked it myself.  It reminds me that there is something for everyone out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have the say I read this book along time ago and I was somewhat disappointed in it.  I wish I could remember why I felt that way, but I felt something lacking.  Maybe I have slightly different views on the subject.  Like I said it was long ago when I read it, so I don&#8217;t completely remember the why&#8217;s, I only remember how I felt.<br />
I am always glad to see someone else find a book that they enjoy even when I have not liked it myself.  It reminds me that there is something for everyone out there.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tim J.</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-912</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 16:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-912</guid>
					<description>If you're interested in my take (according to the scriptures) e-mail me at tjacob78 at msn dot com.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re interested in my take (according to the scriptures) e-mail me at tjacob78 at msn dot com.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tim J.</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-911</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 16:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-911</guid>
					<description>"As you know, we are taught to believe the scriptures as far as they are translated correctly."

You mean the Bible.  I can easily use D&#38;C and THe PofGP.  Eve having any foreknowledge whatsoever as to the consequences of her actions is ridiculous.  GOd did not say, "Don' eat the fruit (wink, wink) but remeber what I said about multiplying?  (wink, wink)."

It simply does not make sense.  And yes, ten people can interpret a scripture differently, but that doesn't mean there are ten different meanings.  Beverly's book, again, flies in the face of what the scriptures tell us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As you know, we are taught to believe the scriptures as far as they are translated correctly.&#8221;</p>
<p>You mean the Bible.  I can easily use D&amp;C and THe PofGP.  Eve having any foreknowledge whatsoever as to the consequences of her actions is ridiculous.  GOd did not say, &#8220;Don&#8217; eat the fruit (wink, wink) but remeber what I said about multiplying?  (wink, wink).&#8221;</p>
<p>It simply does not make sense.  And yes, ten people can interpret a scripture differently, but that doesn&#8217;t mean there are ten different meanings.  Beverly&#8217;s book, again, flies in the face of what the scriptures tell us.
</p>
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		<title>by: Indi</title>
		<link>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-848</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 15:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://roxcy.synthian.org/2006/05/29/eve-and-the-choice/#comment-848</guid>
					<description>Hi Tim,  Thanks for your opinion, which is truly just your opinion.  I believe Beverly Campbell is accurate in her assessment of Eve and in her writing. I believe she has been inspired to write this book and has done her homework with study and prayer.   As you know, we are taught to believe the scriptures as far as they are translated correctly.  Unfortunately, ten people reading the same scripture can have ten different meanings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tim,  Thanks for your opinion, which is truly just your opinion.  I believe Beverly Campbell is accurate in her assessment of Eve and in her writing. I believe she has been inspired to write this book and has done her homework with study and prayer.   As you know, we are taught to believe the scriptures as far as they are translated correctly.  Unfortunately, ten people reading the same scripture can have ten different meanings.
</p>
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